[eu-gene] Self-Replicating Robots

Fri May 13 18:33:47 BST 2005

The "constructing tape" model, though, is inadequate.  It falls 
orders of magnitude short in capturing the complexity of living 
things.  The current estimate is that there are only 20,000 - 25,000 
genes in humans.  Clearly something else is going on.

A big part of the complexity of DNA has to do with a huge switching 
network of genes turning each other on and off, and individual genes 
switching among various expression states.  (i.e. the same gene can 
do different things).

And recent work is pointing towards so called "junk DNA" being, in 
fact, a very important part of this switching network.

So in terms of learning from nature I'm not convinced they've even 
got it right in principle.

But it's still good work.

Phil

At 11:19 PM -0400 5/12/05, Michael Gogins wrote:
>What the article described, and what I described, are essentially 
>the same. Self reproduction is not so complex. The "tape" or DNA is 
>the computer code inside each cube that operates the cube. The cube 
>is a combination nucleus/ribosome. The stack of cubes is a cell.
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joost Rekveld" <lists at lumen.nu>
>To: "generative art" <eu-gene at generative.net>
>Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:22 PM
>Subject: Re: [eu-gene] Self-Replicating Robots
>
>>Hi Michael,
>>
>>perhaps you know than I do about these experiments, but I read this 
>>on the bbc site:
>>
>>>By turning and moving, the cubes can pick up new units, decide 
>>>where they belong, and stack them alongside each other to make new 
>>>devices.
>>>
>>>In a little more than a minute, a simple three-cube robot can make 
>>>a copy of itself.
>>
>>
>>which means to me that what actually happens is that a 'modular 
>>robot' consisting of three cubes/units can pile up three of the 
>>same cubes/units it is made of.
>>
>>Which is a lot less impressive than what you are describing, and 
>>not something which hasn't been done before, i'd think.
>>Do I miss something ?
>>
>>ciao,
>>
>>Joost.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 13 May 2005, at 03:54, Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Although the parts in the headlined experiment are pre-prepared by 
>>>human beings, the machines in question are indeed reproducing 
>>>themselves using the same algorithm invented by von Neumann -- and 
>>>used by living organisms.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>The algorithm is pretty simple, otherwise we probably wouldn't 
>>>exist. One constructing machine reads a tape it contains to build 
>>>another constructing machine, then the first machine copies the 
>>>tape and inserts the copy of the tape into the new constructing 
>>>machine. In living things, the constructing machines are living 
>>>cells and especially the ribosomes which do the actual 
>>>construction by reading the tapes, the tape reader is the enzyme 
>>>transcriptase, and the tapes are DNA helixes.
>>>
>>>I think it is reasonable to expect that in the near to medium 
>>>future, the parts for self-reproducing machines will be made 
>>>simpler and simpler, and smaller and smaller. Perhaps -- someday 
>>>-- self-reproducing machines can build themselves out of naturally 
>>>occuring raw materials using sunlight or common fuels for energy.
>>>
>>>This is a deep field which has some controversies regarding the 
>>>difficulty, or impracticality, or even the advisability, of 
>>>designing such self-replicating machines that can actually 
>>>reproduce "in the wild" (autotrophic von Neumann machines), but 
>>>there is little doubt in my mind that human technology will 
>>>increasingly be based on self-repairing and self-reproducing 
>>>systems, though perhaps based on simplified premanufactured parts.
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaka Zeleznikar" <jaka at jaka.org>
>>>To: "generative art" <eu-gene at generative.net>
>>>Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:58 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [eu-gene] Self-Replicating Robots
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  So why this sudden press release making it into world headlines ?
>>>>
>>>>because some people made not only a researc but also a PR?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>:)
>>>>j.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Joost Rekveld , , 13.5.2005 0:44:
>>>>
>>>>>saw the same today on the bbc site:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4538547.stm
>>>>>
>>>>>but I must admit I don't see the difference very much between 
>>>>>this and other modular robot research, such as listed here:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://staff.aist.go.jp/e.yoshida/test/related-e.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>the idea of self-replication is ofcourse very exciting, but I've 
>>>>>seen recent research from Japan
>>>>>(see http://staff.aist.go.jp/e.yoshida/test/top-e.htm) that 
>>>>>looks very similar and is much older. So why this sudden press 
>>>>>release making it into world headlines ?
>>>>>
>>>>>curious,
>>>>>ciao,
>>>>>
>>>>>Joost.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 12 May 2005, at 11:42, Rob Myers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Article and site via Boing Boing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.boingboing.net/2005/05/11/selfreplicating_robo.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Are the robots acting aesthetically?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Rob.
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>'The world is actually pear shaped'
>>>>>>To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>>>>>>http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Joost Rekveld
>>>>>-----------    http://www.lumen.nu/rekveld
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>"The mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible"
>>>>>(Oscar Wilde)
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>'The world is actually pear shaped'
>>>>To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>>>>http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>'The world is actually pear shaped'
>>>To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>>>http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
>>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------
>>
>>                         Joost Rekveld
>>-----------    http://www.lumen.nu/rekveld
>>
>>-------------------------------------------
>>
>>"The mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible"
>>(Oscar Wilde)
>>
>>-------------------------------------------
>>
>>--
>>'The world is actually pear shaped'
>>To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>>http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
>>
>
>
>--
>'The world is actually pear shaped'
>To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene