[eu-gene] Software / generative / whatever

Sun Jan 15 14:21:11 GMT 2012

Because in Art we need to recognize the subjective vision of the artist. If there is not a vision, a subjective interpretation of the world, it’s not Art.
If many people appreciate and recognize a particular vision in different results of the same artist, the artist is a great artist.
An installation, a piece of music, a song, but also an architecture, a poem, an animation, and so on, can be Art if there is a subjective interpretation of the world and if many people, looking at different “artworks” of the same artist can recognize the vision that is common in all his artworks. As happens for Van Gogh, for the Beatles, for Andy Warhol, for Pollock, for Mozart.
Which Generative Artworks (multiple variations generated by a created process) do you recognize as belonging to a peculiar artist? To an identifiable subjective vision performed as generative process?
If so, this is Generative Art.
If not, it is only generative design, generative graphic, generative music, generative installation, generative ...
Celestino Soddu

From: isjtar 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:21 PM
To: generative art 
Subject: Re: [eu-gene] Software / generative / whatever

seriously? 
music instead of art? installations instead of art?
if you can't recognize the artist it's not art?

if this weren't such a civilized list, I'd accuse you of trolling :)

On 13 Jan 2012, at 09:20, Celestino Soddu wrote:

  Design, as many other fields of creative activities, could be Art if there is a “recognizable” subjective Vision.
  If the vision is not recognizable and if it’s impossible to recognize the artist identity, the result is only design (or music, or images, or installations, or robots, and so on), also if a wonderful design.
  Celestino Soddu

  From: John Clavin 
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 12:47 AM
  To: eu-gene at generative.net 
  Subject: Re: [eu-gene] Software / generative / whatever

  Marius, If we take your piece "abstract01" (that I happen to think is a very nice work), do you really think anyone here, or yourself, can say if this is art or design? Or determine as to whether or not you are an artist or an enthusiast? 

  Maybe we should start counting lines of code? Or consider the environment of the finished work, if it ends up in an art gallery we will call it art, but if it ends up in a Hyatt hotel lobby then it is design.

  John Clavin

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Marius Watz <amoeba at evolutionzone.com>
  To: generative art <eu-gene at generative.net>
  Sent: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:23 pm
  Subject: Re: [eu-gene] Software / generative / whatever

  Ok, so I might be guilty of elitism - but not in the sense only in the sense that I rarely find great value in the work of someone who has dug up sample code for a standard algorithm (i.e. tiling / L-systems / circle packing / Voronoi) and applied it with predictable results. To do so is perfectly valid as a personal exploration or part of a process of learning or simply as an expression of the enjoyment of Making - but it rarely makes for great art. 

  To say that such activities are on a par with Sol Lewitt's body of work would seem an extravagant exercise in egalitarianism. This doesn't preclude the chance that an "enthusiast" (known elsewhere as an "Outsider Artist" - although those are usually a little crazy) might produce a thing of great beauty, but it's certainly less likely. More probable is the rise of artists outside the conventional mechanisms of art schools and gallery world, personally I have no art degree to my name so I would be foolish to imply that one was needed.

  However, I do think most people who has followed the field for a while can discern between art and design, between enthusiast and professional artist. The former is a matter of intention, the latter is a matter of depth and vision. If there is no way to discern differences then the entire notion of an art field is moot.

  Having said that, I totally agree about assigning relative value to art and design. That's like saying that apples are inherently inferior to oranges. The point is not that one is better - the point is that they are completely different practices, achieving different ends by different means.

  -m

  On 6/01/12 22:17, John Clavin wrote: 
    Statements like: "Art is....." and "Design is less important than art" and "Some are enthusiasts and some are artists" are making me want to go to another planet. 

    Can anyone here look at a work of generative art and tell if the artist was an artist or an enthisiast? Or if the work is design and not art.

    What kind of an elitist group is this! Who are we to judge what is art?

    John Clavin

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael Gogins mailto:michael.gogins at gmail.com
    To: generative art mailto:eu-gene at generative.net
    Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 7:15 am
    Subject: Re: [eu-gene] Software / generative / whatever

Design is less important than art, because design depends upon and
presupposes art. Art is what creates the template for "the human
world." Design fills out the template.

Regards,
Mike

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Philip Galanter <list at philipgalanter.com> wrote:
> Absolutely Rob.  I don't mean to be elitist in these comments at all. And for 
that matter I have nothing but respect for great design. It's different than 
art, but no less difficult or important.
>
> I guess the point I was making was that at this point, at least in the digital 
realm, the making of generative art has gotten in front of the thinking about 
generative art. And so more should be done to nurture criticism, theory, and 
history work related to generative art. What can we do to make that happen?
>
> Phil
>
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Rob Myers wrote:
>
>> On 06/01/12 17:33, Marius Watz wrote:
>>>
>>> Most of the work is by enthusiasts, not artists,
>>
>> (Generative) Art For All! :-)
>>
>> - Rob.
>> --
>> 'In this forum this kind of thrown egg is likely to land on your own face.'
>> To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>> http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
>
> --
> 'In this forum this kind of thrown egg is likely to land on your own face.'
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-- 
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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